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Post by Epheron on Oct 13, 2008 17:42:38 GMT -4
A team member and I were talking about(more like arguing) over what would be better for a RA shield. Well, if you follow this guide to begin with: schtserv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=272RAmar -EQUIPS: V101, Centurion/Ability, 5/150/45/0 mag -Maxes out at LVL 190 125 HP Mats 125 TP Mats 70 Pow Mats 63 Def Mats 63 Mind Mats 31 Eva Mats 23 Luck Mats ...you will have maxed base stats. This person was arguing that From the Depths was not worth equipping, even protesting it was stupid and would take the Ranger Wall over it because he'd take functionality over looks. Here's the stats for the RA Wall and FTD RANGER WALL ATA: + 20 DFP: + 70 EVP: + 145 LCK: + 15 EFR: + 15 EIC: + 18 FROM THE DEPTHS DFP: + 160 EVP: + 240 EFR: + 20 EIC: + 32 ETH: + 40 EDK: + 28 ELT: + 28 www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1147You're looking at a 90 DFP, and 170 EVP difference alone. Also, look at the resistances: 5 more Fire, 14 more Ice, 40 more lightning (from nothing), and 28 more Light and Dark resists, again from the RA Wall's 0's. Ok, now the next thing you're thinking is "What about the 20 ATA that you get from the RA Wall?" Think about it. The RA Wall, like slot items and a mag adds to the BASE value of ATA. If you've already maxed your base stats, how would that help? I guess your only arguement for using the RA Wall could be Luck, because I honestly don't know if it adds to base or overall. Now, try this on for size. We have a level 150 RAmar, the class with the highest ATA in the game. This means that he already has 200 ATA. You can add the recommended mag, a 5/150/45/0, Heavenly/Arms(+25) and with the V101(+2) and Centurion/Ability(+2) he has 251.5 ATA! That is OVER the maxed base ATA for a RAmar. Keep in mind that's still FIFTY levels from 200. That still leaves room for a V501 if he wants to do those fancy one hit kill attacks with a Hell weapon, or even another Heavenly/Arms to cap out his ATA! Not much sense for that Ranger Wall now, is there?
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Post by Ron on Oct 13, 2008 17:54:46 GMT -4
No sir your completely leaving out everything we originally dicussed.
We originally discussed RA wall against FTD.I said it's useless for Ra's imo and RA wall was alot more helpful.
YOU AGREED.
Then you mentioned stat maxing and resists.
For one in order to max your stats,you have to have CERTAIN CONDITIONS in order to max your stats.
First of all you just outlayed a plan a person would have to follow in order to max their stats at a certain level.
The 20 ATA boost over FTD's defense and resist boosts are WAY more useful than FTD.There's a reason most people recommend using a RA wall over a FTD.Most PSO players in general don't max their stats at all the way alot of these guides show you how.Most just play and learn as they go along,especially if they are new or have never really put any thought into stat maxing.
As I said,you'd have to follow a specific plan to even accomplish what he's talking about.The ranger wall is a hell of alot easier to obtain and use at a lower level.AND it's still very useful,even in the later levels.
Another thing,the resists are pointless as I said.Most enemies use physical attacks,and all of the teammates that I asked agreed with me.You only need resists in certain situations.
So like I said,equipping FTD is useless for RA.My stats aren't maxed and won't be maxed anytime soon.
Most of everything you said in there is "he can he can" and certain conditions.
Let's stick to the facts.
Your doing nothing really but saying "he can get this unit and it will boost his ata" blah blah.Getting a v101 isn't just as easy as your making it seem for one.
Two it would make no sense at all for me to trade in a ranger wall(which you obtain for free) to go out and buy a h/arms.Why would I waste Pds just to add what?Another 5 ata to my stats?
Three,what's the point in wasting slots for h/arms at all when I have ranger wall.Your saying I could get a h/arms,ditch the ranger wall,and get a FTD?
Are we forgetting FTD isn't exactly easy to obtain for one.
Even then like I said,why would I go out and try to obtain a FTD when ranger's dont require a ton of defense?Which then you brought up the resists that pretty much everyone agreed with what I said.
You can't be right if your doing nothing but assuming.
Your max stats argument isn't even relevant here,seeing as my stats aren't maxed.
You were wrong on resists,which you don't even need except for situational moments.You fail to admit that.
In conclusion,you fail.There is no point in equipping a from the depths for me.Like I said,what your proposing here either is a specific plan where i'd have to make a new Ramar,or me buying stuff i've previously had just to max out my ata which is a waste of money.
Why would I spend more money trying to get a h/arms and v101 just to max my ata when it will max before I hit 200?Ranger Wall was completely free,and still would help me a shit load more than From the depths,which offers nothing besides defense,evp,and resists.It's not helping me hit anything more,just helping me protect my self better,which rangers don't need anyway.
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Post by Ron on Oct 13, 2008 18:12:23 GMT -4
Also why did you go offtopic?
The argument was about resists!
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Post by Epheron on Oct 13, 2008 18:46:16 GMT -4
I'll admit that I did agree about the Ranger Wall's usefullness. It was when you said that it was useless for you that I decided I needed to make this thread so I could get a word in edgewise.
I DID NOT AGREE WITH THIS: "I said it's useless for Ra's imo and RA wall was alot more helpful."
"Your doing nothing really but saying "he can get this unit and it will boost his ata" blah blah.Getting a v101 isn't just as easy as your making it seem for one.
...
Three,what's the point in wasting slots for h/arms at all when I have ranger wall.Your saying I could get a h/arms,ditch the ranger wall,and get a FTD?
Are we forgetting FTD isn't exactly easy to obtain for one."
The point in this thread was not discussing the cost of obtaining the items, it was a simple usefulness analysis.
"For one in order to max your stats,you have to have CERTAIN CONDITIONS in order to max your stats.
First of all you just outlayed a plan a person would have to follow in order to max their stats at a certain level."
Completely irrelevant. We're not even talking about stat maxing in it's entirety. Talking about ATA bonus on the RA Wall vs. what you need. Following that plan laid out above you'll notice that nothing required to max your ATA except 45 points in your mag's DEX. Most rangers use a power mag, a 5/150/45/0 Sato, for instance, which gives you +22.5 ATA. No mats or special equipment aside from a v101 and a Cent/Ability, which max your ATA at level 190 (or before)
Level 150 ATA (200)+ Mag ATA Bonus (22.5) + Heavenly/Arm (25)= 247.5. THAT IS 1.5 ATA FROM MAXIMUM.
"The 20 ATA boost over FTD's defense and resist boosts are WAY more useful than FTD."
No it's not and what about the EVA and DEF?
I don't understand why you're saying you don't need resistances. I agree that very few enemies actually cast spells. The ones I can think of off of the top of my head are Hildebear (Foie), Hildeblue (Barta), Hildelt (Zonde), Ob Lilly (MEGID), Chaos Sorcerer (Gibarta, Rafoie), Gran Sorcerer (MEGID, GRANTS) and just about every boss that I can think of uses a tech of some sort. I personally like taking as little damage as possible while I wail on them. I can't do without DARK and LIGHT resists, myself because GRANTS damage and MEGID insta-death which I enjoy resisting if possible.
Two it would make no sense at all for me to trade in a ranger wall(which you obtain for free) to go out and buy a h/arms.Why would I waste Pds just to add what?Another 5 ata to my stats?
Again, you're not simply adding 5 to your ATA. You're replacing an OK shield with a much better one. You ask why you would spend (waste? how?) PDs to buy Heavenly/Arms? Because it's a 5 ATA increase over your Ranger Wall, effectively replacing it making room for a better shield.
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Post by Ron on Oct 13, 2008 19:09:55 GMT -4
I'll admit that I did agree about the Ranger Wall's usefullness. It was when you said that it was useless for you that I decided I needed to make this thread so I could get a word in edgewise.
I DID NOT AGREE WITH THIS:"I said it's useless for Ra's imo and RA wall was alot more helpful.""Your doing nothing really but saying "he can get this unit and it will boost his ata" blah blah.Getting a v101 isn't just as easy as your making it seem for one.
...
Three,what's the point in wasting slots for h/arms at all when I have ranger wall.Your saying I could get a h/arms,ditch the ranger wall,and get a FTD?
Are we forgetting FTD isn't exactly easy to obtain for one."The point in this thread was not discussing the cost of obtaining the items, it was a simple usefulness analysis."For one in order to max your stats,you have to have CERTAIN CONDITIONS in order to max your stats.
First of all you just outlayed a plan a person would have to follow in order to max their stats at a certain level."Completely irrelevant. We're not even talking about stat maxing in it's entirety. Talking about ATA bonus on the RA Wall vs. what you need. Following that plan laid out above you'll notice that nothing required to max your ATA except 45 points in your mag's DEX. Most rangers use a power mag, a 5/150/45/0 Sato, for instance, which gives you +22.5 ATA. No mats or special equipment aside from a v101 and a Cent/Ability, which max your ATA at level 190 (or before)"The 20 ATA boost over FTD's defense and resist boosts are WAY more useful than FTD."No it's not and what about the EVA and DEF?
I don't understand why you're saying you don't need resistances. I agree that very few enemies actually cast spells. The ones I can think of off of the top of my head are Hildebear (Foie), Hildeblue (Barta), Hildelt (Zonde), Ob Lilly (MEGID), Chaos Sorcerer (Gibarta, Rafoie), Gran Sorcerer (MEGID, GRANTS) and just about every boss that I can think of uses a tech of some sort. I personally like taking as little damage as possible while I wail on them. I can't do without DARK and LIGHT resists, myself because GRANTS damage and MEGID insta-death which I enjoy resisting if possible.
Two it would make no sense at all for me to trade in a ranger wall(which you obtain for free) to go out and buy a h/arms.Why would I waste Pds just to add what?Another 5 ata to my stats?Again, you're not simply adding 5 to your ATA. You're replacing an OK shield with a much better one. You ask why you would spend (waste? how?) PDs to buy Heavenly/Arms? Because it's 25 ATA increase over 15 on a God/Arm.
How do you say one minute it's useful and you do agree,but then you turn around the next minute and say you don't agree. FTD has no purpose to me what so ever.It really doesn't.Your doing nothing but trying to fight my opinion,because I did say IMO. And I know we are not talking about stat maxing completely.The point is your still laying out a plan that would have to be followed with specific conditions.Stat maxing doesn't apply here at all because I didn't even follow a mat plan even near there.So nothing besides your final analysis of only me really matters. I like how you just said that I only said "resistances don't matter".Let me quote exactly what I said. " which you don't even need except for situational moments" Sorry to inform you,but the bears and their foie?Even with my 0 fire resist on my Fomarl I barely take any damage at all from those shits.Same case when I did an ult run with no armor.They barely even touched me.Not to mention as a ranger,I have a SQ which I can EASILY freeze before he can even shoot foie or his lighting at me. Same case with Ob Lillies,my first objective is to take them out.Period.You shouldn't be getting hit by megid anyway unless you make a screw up.Even then,megid is a 1 hit kill.Higher resists do what happens if you simply would have dodged the megid or just stayed out of range completely,LIKE I DO.This is exactly what I said resists are useless man.Half the stuff you have mentioned,can be easily stopped by a ranger with the use of a froozer or SQ.Even then,a smart ranger will be completely out of the range of Ob lilly or using the doors to their advantage to not get hit by them. Same case with sorcerers.This is why as a ranger,I take out things like sorcerers first in the ruins. As far as bosses go,Falz is the only real boss you need big resists for.Point blank.I've never seen in all my time on PSO,people scrambling to get something for Ice resistance or anything else for that matter.I have seen people scrambling for those 5 extra points on light resist for falz.Not to mention half the bosses are freakin dead in a few seconds at level 150 on ep1. Sorry but there's a huge difference here.I can kill those hildes,ob lillies,and sorcerers from a distance before their techs can affect me.Since your a fomar,i'm assuming your usually close in the action and if surrounded by multiple of lets say,a hildet,you might have problems with the shock,which can be prevented with a cure shock unit. Also I said why would I trade in a ranger wall for a h/arms.It is a waste of pds for me to simply trade in one item,just to have to buy a few other items and then getting what you call a better shield in the process. Why do I need all that shit a FTD offers?Really why do I? Like I said to do what your saying,i'd still have to can the RA wall,get a v101 and h/arms and get a FTD.Just to get what you call a better shield that offers more. That FTD's DEF boost or EVP boost won't even matter if i'm a freakin ranger!Resists don't even matter half of the time either like I said.So what's the point here? Like I SAID before.It's understandable if a HU or FO has it.Mainly because most will be meeleing with it. I said it earlier,and i'll say it again,FROM THE DEPTHS IS USELESS AS HELL TO ME.It would not help me take down enemies easier at all.It would only take away something I need and trading it for something I don't want or need at all.My RA and Sacred Cloth resists are perfectly fine and I have no problems at all with grants. You can't be right at all if my opinion of a FTD for me is useless,you really can't. I'll ask you this basic question. If I were to equip a FTD now,do you really think it would be better for me to use FTD instead of continuing using my RA wall?
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Post by Epheron on Oct 13, 2008 19:24:04 GMT -4
So anyway, this thread was not about you. It was a simple compare/contrast for the From The Depths and Ranger Wall shields.
I'm happy for you that you're happy with your Ranger Wall but it's completely eclipsed in usefulness by the From the Depths shield.
I've proven my point and there's no real reason to keep this thread open any longer.
If someone could, please lock this thread and sticky it because it was meant to be informative, not an argument over Ron's equipment.
(If it's stickied, you can delete this post and all of Ron's posts. I was responding to him just to further respond to any questions someone may have when choosing their final shield for a RA, hence why I didn't use his name in the quotes.)
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Post by Ron on Oct 13, 2008 19:33:17 GMT -4
This entire thing was suppose to be ABOUT ME.After all I was the one who said it isn't useful to me at all.You even gave an analysis of my own character and said what I could do instead of the ranger wall.So yes it was about me.
I like how whenever you want to stop,you just ignore all my questions and what not.
If this wasn't about me, why would you waste time trying to explain how much ata I have?Why would you explain that a RA wall would be a waste seeing as I already have about 200 ata,i'd just have to add a few units and I'd be about 20 points away.
You can't prove a damn point in here at all.My opinion is that it isn't useful to me at all.You haven't given me one reason at all how this would be useful to me.
My original statement was FTD ISN'T USEFUL TO ME.
If you were just trying to show what a RA's final shield was, you wouldn't have included me in your attempt to show this.
Not to mention this is suppose to be ABOUT RESISTS.
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Post by Tenshu on Oct 13, 2008 20:16:30 GMT -4
Epheron, Ron pretty much ended the debate with one simple phrase: IMO. ^^;
Reading all this, I've come to two conclusions:
1) Ron needs to calm down when someone questions him, else he'll sound like a hypocrite when trying to defend his OWN opinion ^^;.
2) This team is very liberal when it comes to opinion, so Ron has his opinion, and Epheron has his own. The purpose of this team is to let everyone play the way they want, you can suggest FTD to Ron, but it's ultimately up to him according to his playstyle whether he'd take it or not.
To my knowledge this is incorrect, Ranger Wall, like Red Ring, adds to your existing ATA, so you can be maxed but have an added 20 ATA, which can be useful to some people's playstyles (i.e. using special strikes)
Rangers really shouldn't be getting hit much unless they're what I call "Rambo Rangers" where they also like to get up close and use that ATA of theirs in close combat. But Resists shouldn't be all that important to Rangers except maybe for Dark when fighting Ill Gills in their "Rush Mode".
The other drawback to FTD is unless you can pinpoint when you're gonna get confused, the confusion it gives you can be a liability against a very tough enemy, whereby you'd use up an armor unit slot with Cure/Confuse.
So whether or not Ranger Wall or FTD is useful depends on the player, if you want accuracy and you like being as far as possible, Ranger Wall it is. If you like getting in close and don't mind using up a slot to cure confusion and above average resistances, FTD'll do ya good.
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Post by Vale on Oct 13, 2008 20:28:37 GMT -4
um idk wat a ranger wall looks like but ive seen from the depths and its pretty cool but idk wat they do so i cant say which is better.
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Post by Tenshu on Oct 13, 2008 20:31:55 GMT -4
Hehe, hi namine ^^;
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